I've been giving some thoughts as to the balance of calamity vs. commodity cards. My thoughts were that for every set there should be a calamity, so I'm thinking the number of calamities also needs to change when playing with 8 or more players (and hence extra commodity card sets). However I'm very reluctant just to throw in another existing tradable calamity because that would make some advancements more powerful (because now they would effect twice as many calamities, while the others the same). Sooo... I'm thinking there needs to be a simple filler calamity that isn't too harsh, but and that isn't effected by advancements and can be applied to all the stacks evenly....(so it in effect only adds one new calamity to the rules). Here is my proposal:

Minor Uprising (tradable)
At least one unit point per city owned by the victim must be replaced with barbarian tokens/cities. The victim chooses where these come from. These points can be paid for either partially or wholly by using treasury tokens.

My view is that by letting the victim use treasury tokens it should really limit the amount of damage done. The catch would be that Minor Uprising would NOT count to the two card calamity limit when resolving calamity. So in effect this could be coupled with stronger calamities, though even then the damage will still probably be pretty minor.

How does that sound?

I was thinking of something like this too. If you want a very minor calamatiy, how about something like a Ruined Goods card, that does nothing. The downside, of course is that you don't get a trade card from that stack this turn.

That's true... perhaps there doesn't need to be any negative effects at all besides a bad draw. It certianly would simplify the rules.

What does everyone else think?

Why not both Ruined Goods and Minor Uprising, plus a couple more to round out the set? You've already added new calamities for 7-9. With those two and three more, you've got all you need. I think it is more fun to have different calamities in each set of trade cards.

Now, if I could just think of some additional calamities...

Oh, one minor point--it would help if Ruined Goods only appeared with trade goods that practically could be ruined. There's not much you can do to Iron, for example, but Fish is another matter!

-Andrew
I'm not sure we're civilized yet.

Well there are a couple challenges I see in making a whole other set of calamity cards.

First they couldn't be the couldn't be affected by advances (because that would require a complete balance overhaul) which would mean they would have to be minor in effect, since you couldn't acquire anything to alleviate them as you can with every other calamity.

Secondly, it would add more pages to the rulebook and make it a little more complex. Most gamers now days seem define complex as anything they can't remember off the top of their head . I'm also of conscious of the new player that looks at the 50 page manual and flinches. Mind you that us experienced players know 90% of it is redundant reference material but to others it looks unwieldy and overly complex.

Of course if 8 additional minor, simple and elegant calamities can be brainstormed on here, I'll be more than happy to make up cards. But thinking of well balanced, unique and limited in scope calamities is more of a challenge than you might think...hehe. But please post your ideas! If can get some good ones I'll make the cards!

Well, if I can advocate one of my own ideas

For a simple, yet potent, calamity, I came up with Despotism:

Despotism prevents the building of any new cities on the following turn and increases the tax rate to 3 per city for the next turn. (Coinage will allow the holder to reduce the tax rate only to 2)

To me, this represents a ruler who is concerned with enlarging his treasury... hence high taxes and no spending. This could be simplified even more by removing the tax restriction.

I actually like the originality of this calamity, but I don't think it qualifies as being a minor one. In fact, I could see it being very nasty when coupled with another calamity like Iconoclasm & Heresy, which would knock your cities down. It seems to hurt weak empires more than stronger ones.

Coupled with another bad disaster a player would be faced with both not advancing up the AST and falling far behind in advances for two turns. Once when the big disaster hits and then again on the next turn when he is unable to rebuild. On it's own a healthy secure empire wouldn't have much to worry about, but coupled with other disasters I'm afraid it might be too deadly and frustrating. I would rather an healthy empire get knocked down a bit, rather than an unlucky weaker empire be put out of the game.

Of course that’s easily fixable by saying something like:
The Civilization on the next turn can only build two cities.
That would be a minor calamity.
If you wanted to make it a major one then:
The Civilization on the next turn can only build one cities.

Another problem though is that this calamity forces players to resolve and remember previous events well into the next turn. Though we might not think it's a big deal this seems a bit inelegant because no other calamity forces players to carry over actions. How will they remember? They can't keep the card out... (that would be a strange exception) so they would have to either trust themselves or figure out some way to remind themselves.

Also... getting this calamity on the last turn (either in a natural or time limit game) is basically a free ride since it won't affect you at all.

I've had many brainstorms like this revolving around cool calamities that resolve themselves in the next turn (limit the number of cards that can be drawn, points that can be spent, tokens placed on map, etc) but I can't get around the fact that every other calamity is resolved on the spot there and not later. So I reluctantly put them away.

In conjunction with that I've been thinking of changing regression to simply immediately making your AST move backwards one space now rather than letting your marker not move in the AST advancement phase, just so the calamity can be resolved at that instant. The marker could of course move up normally during the AST advancement phase. I'm still just not really comfortable in moving the resolution of a calamity – even if its just into the next phase if at all possible. I suppose I’m just not really a fan of rule exceptions unless it really enhances the play.

Hope this makes some sense… hehe. I tend to ramble…

Of course there is no right or wrong way to design a calamity. Some like to play with harsher calamities, some dislike the bad ones. I’m just trying to think out all of the angles for a balanced calamity.

Just take away his city pieces

Well, since you are looking for minor calamities, how about something like Bureaucratic Inefficiency--Return all tokens from Treasury to Stock. Resolves immediately, the effects are that the player has no Treasury to spend on Advances. Rules are pretty simple. The only problem I have with it is the name--doesn't sound very "ancient."

I agree with you, Velusion, that resolving calamities should be complete at the end of that phase. Delayed effects are tempting, but difficult to track.

As for adding to the rules and scaring off new players, I usually teach new players the same way I learned...playing the game without having seen the rulebook. One of the nicest things is that the early turns tend to progressively add complications, which makes the game very easy to learn by playing. Of course, they don't have much chance of winning, because it takes a while to pick up the strategy, but that's not unusual for a game that isn't largely random in nature.

-Andrew
I'm not sure we're civilized yet.

Another could be Shipwreck (aka. The Sea God's Revenge)--Remove all ship tokens belonging to the player from the Map to Stock. Effects are quite minor (just means that the player will need to pay full price to replace ships needed next turn). Simple and immediately executable.

-Andrew
I'm not sure we're civilized yet.

Change the name of this one to The New Palace or Squandered Wealth.

-Andrew
I'm not sure we're civilized yet.

"Change the name of this one to The New Palace or Squandered Wealth."

How about Vermin?

I like Squandered Wealth... I like the calamity also.

I was thinking about my idea for a "Spoiled Goods" (which, by the way, is not a good name... my intent was for it to go in any trade card stack, because for any commodity, something could go wrong) and I came up with a similar calamity which is tradeable: Counterfeit Goods

Ok.. now I have I'm thinking perhaps it is possible...hmmm. I wish I had more time to respond to all of these idea's right now! Keep em coming!

Ok so far this is what ive come up with using some of ya'lls ideas...
Let me know what you think... this is 8 new minor calamities!

http://67.66.187.69/acep/calamitiestest.htm