I found another source for the same file


http://www.reformation.org/golden-calf.jpg

Ok that's the calf, now for the abduction/destruction...

another funny one

Some info here:





The same thing with the ten commandments by Moses for 'Monotheism', i'm doubting whether this would be the right image. It's based on belief rather than fact. I'm trying to keep that away from the images.

OK, I see what you mean. But "lack of details" wasn't what I meant with "blurry", but rather what would have been called "out of focus" if it where a photograph. Or "smeared out" if it was finger paint. But more details are still very welcome.


Yes, corruption is very symbolic, it's in the very nature of the term. However, I do like your suggestion of a concrete image.


The calamity has borders around the background image, not around the feature image (the central symbols). If you want a border, you would have to remake the entire layout to make the border fit the "bigger picture". Compare with the commodities and your new advancement layout, where the border doesn't only encompass the image, but the entire layout. I'm not opposed a border per see, only against a single plain boarder around the feature image.


Actually, I don't think we need to state tradable, but I don't think we need to state major either, so then we get a blank. According to your 3 point table we shouldn't put either there, but then you'd either get a blank space or a different aspect ratio of some image...
Don't know what is the "least bad" to do, but I think tradable is less bad than major.


Well, you don't have to do a incomplete eclipse. You could use some artistic freedom and depict the bright light with lots of colour (eg black) and the surrounding lack of light with a lack of colour (eg white)...
In fact I like my proof-of-concept so much that if it hadn't been because I trust you'll do a better job when you redraw it, I'd clean it up a bit and use it instead of the current image.


The menorah in Rome might be famous, but I had in fact never heard of it before your mention. And the golden calf in Sinai is not just a famous instance of Iconoclams, it's the first instance of iconoclasm in the Jewish religions (incl. Christianity and Islam), hard to beat the same day as the rule was set...



I agree completely with Flo. I'm honestly tired of being "politically correct" all the time, and isn't afraid of using emotionally "loaded" images if they serve a purpose. However, I do think that the golden calf just is a better fit.


Well, not quite. The current image is of a calf or bull in front of a temple. I'd like a calf in front of a mountain.



That image is protected from inline linkage. One has to link to the page containing it: http://mentalblog.com/2005/07/chop-em-down.html


Honestly, one has to acknowledge the importance of religion in our history and culture, and like it or not, that is based on belief rather than fact.
Or if you want facts: It is a fact that the golden calf is the archetypical iconoclasm in three of the largest religions on Earth.


If you think the destruction is odd, what about the creation (loosely translated from my bible):

However, some basic reasoning, and you soon figure out that they didn't have a forge with them in the dessert, and God wasn't about to perform a miracle to help them break his new law. So they must have made a calf out of wood, and then clad it in gold. The wooden structure was later burned, and the ashes was mixed with water and drunk.

And BTW, you can drink gold. There are several kids of alcohol with 24 carat gold flakes in them. You have to stir the drink periodically or they'll end up at the bottom of the glass, but you can drink it. and given gold foil, all you need is a pair of scissors and a lot of time, and you can make your own drinkable good flakes (and as your source points out, all you need to get gold foil is a mortar and some time).

Well. I totally agree that the calf is the symbol for Iconoclasm. I was never 'against' it, but also not convinced that it would be the ONE AND ONLY right image. That's what my only problem is about that.

One of the reason for that, is the thing about fact/belief.

Ofcourse, many (maybe almost all) stories in history are NOT facts, but stories. The bible can be seen as both a 'symbolic' book and a wrong interpretation of what was known to be truth and then written down.
Some people try to keep up with the unmistakable truth written in any religeous book. The term 'miracle' cannot be left out in this.

If one wants to believe in both making a golden calf and destroy it again by burning gold, and name it as a miracle, he's allowed.

If one wants to read this story as a symbolic metafore for something else, he's allowed.

If one wants to read the story with a little doubt on truth, he's allowed.

I guess for our game, we have to settle with the last option, also my personal belief on this topic. I (I guess we) think the story might have happened, but at the day itself interpreted in a wrong manner, by tunnel-vision, superstition, unawareness, lack of knowlegde or any other reason. I think the wood-paint version you stated comes close to reason.

Therefore a buring calf in front of a mountain should be the best image for this. This in addition to the FACT, that the calf is THE widely known symbol for Iconoclasm. Recognition is one (though not the only one) of the goals for a good illustrator.

Agree?

Agree!

Still I cannot see the problem with a border round the images.

The calamities differ from the commodities anyway., but it would make the whole of the set much clearer. It shouldn't have to be a border as thick as my first try-out. I just think it makes the card better . All info outside the border, all flavour inside the border. it;s all so clear.

For Superstition. Jonno, I've been looking for some images. I think we can work it out, in the way you proposed. Looking at those two, it doesn't look so strange for a white sky with a black corona. Still I think a partial eclipse is atill an option.

I've made a start with drawing.

As long as we have no final descission for the lay-out of the calamities I've made some previes with the current version. This will be changed later.

Oh shit, you are GOOD!!!

Superstition isn't quite as good as the other two, but still awesome.
I've got two comments on it though:
1) I don't get any "glowing" or "brightening" feel from the sun. It is as if it were dull with barely any light coming from it. Not really good, as the eclipse still has barely begun.
2) It looks like the foremost standing man has the back of an arrow instead of a hand. Probably nothing one would notice with the standard size of the cards, but given that printing them as poker sized cards is getting increasingly popular, I think the images should work in that scale as well.

Also, looking at your new images, the border doesn't look as much out-of-place as I had feared. Will probably work that way anyway, if we can just solve the E/W marker problem...

I was thinking of some rays around the sun. But I was afraid of ruining it. making it look like a child's drawing of the sun.

So first I scanned it. I can draw the rays on another piece of paper and add it in photoshop. Also thought of making the sky a bit darker, but working with only black on white, this is hard with drawing only long lines or make it look too dark so I left that.

The thing the middle person holds in his hand is really undefined. Actually kinda worked out wrong. Never thought of pokercards. I can adjust that the same way as above.

OK

I adjusted Superstion. Added the sunrays and adjusted the hand.



In addition I drew the following.

Superstition:
The hand you fixed wasn't the hand I complained about. I was thinking on the rightmost standing person.
The sun-rays does make the image slightly childish, but not so that it destroys the image.

Civil War:
Wonderful picture, but to me it looks more like War than Civil War...
Also much busier than all the other images.

Coastal Migration:
Perfect!

Epidemic:
To me it looks like they are suffering acute food poisoning rather than epidemic...

Famine:
Perfect!

Ok. Well this is exactly what I was intented to make ik look like. These person perform some sort of (undefined) ritual to deflect what's happening when the sun is 'eaten up'. It doesn't matter what you see the person has in it's hands, because it's a scene, not a close up. I did not specify any certain ritual, just intented to situate any ritual.


I like this one better than the current one. I'm not going to change it now, maybe at a later stage. It looks like war, but that's what I intended. I was looking for an image that indicates 'war'. You can see the people look alike cause they're from the same nation. THe card is aggravated by military and advanced military. I was tryin to get a vast difference between this one and cards like 'city riots', 'minor uprising' 'civil disorder'. The current Civil War could also indicate one of these cards. My image doesn't.





Maybe an image of some bodies will do.