I've never been very fond of the name Advanced Military. It feels lame. As if we wasn't able to come up with anything better than adding Military twice (which, in fact, is what Advanced Military originally was, it worked just like Military, but beat mere Military).

So what about renaming "Advanced Military" to "Military Tactics" and "Military" to "Military Strategy". After all, Military is about being able to do plan a better strategy of what fights to fight, while Advanced Military is about the tactics of how to fight a fight, and what troops to commit to battle.

Flo's nice illustrations and flavour texts could go unchanged even with this simple rename. (Though he might opt to remake the flavour texts if he wants to).

What do all you think.

I have no problems with the name 'advanced military', though this could be interpreted in many ways.

Looking at what the card does, I really interpreted as the auxilia troups the romans used.

Wikipedia: The main Roman soldiers in the Empire were the legionaries. There were, of course, other soldiers in the army; these were known as the auxilia. Auxilia were non-citizens recruited mostly from the provinces. They were paid less than legionaries but at the end of their service they were granted Roman citizenship.

exactly what the card does: recruiting soldiers from the provinces.

Wikipedia: Roman infantry tactics refers to the theoretical and historical deployment, formation and maneuvers of the Roman infantry from the start of the Roman Republic to the fall of the Western Roman Empire.

I have no problems with "Tactics" either. As the card should refer to 'Military', maybe "Military Tactics" is the best option.

I'm even on keeping the name or renaming, but if the card is being renamed, I'd go for "Military Tactics"


I would not rename "military" as the name itself stands for organized warfare in any form.

I never had any problems with 'Advanced Military', but know that I think of it. I do. My main point is that the names 'Military' and 'Advanced Military' suggest that it's a sort of development schedule: first from scratch to Military and than from Military to Advanced Military.

Logic-wise it doesn't really make sense to first buy 'Avanced Miltary' and 'Military' afterwards, although in the game this is reasonably possible.

I'm fine with the name 'Military', so if we change something I prefer to change 'Advanced Military' only.

However, I also don't really like to have both the names 'Military' and 'Military tactics'; I'd rather avoid the word 'military' in the latter since the names are slightly confusing. Currently that is not the case, because the first word is usually emphasized when speaking about the card:

Advanced military

In case of Military Tactics, it will be

Military Tactics

Why don't we name the card simply 'Tactics'? Although the word can be used in many ways, it is very often used in relation to warfare strategy.

Well, if the effects of any card would fit "organized warfare in any form" that would be the effects of Metalworking, not the effects of Military (Strategy).



Great with opposing points of view

I think I agree with Flo though, tactics can be so much more than military tactics, and it's very much military tactics we mean...

Well,

Metalworking to me, only aplies to the weaponry used. (metal wepaons in this) and doiong more damage, even with metal spearheads.

Do you know first iron spearhead were not populair, because the enmey could trhow it back. Later people invented some sort of 'softer' metal spearheads. When hit, the spearhead bended by the weight of the stick and became useless, and so this became more populair)

Military could be interpreted as 'military strategy' in our game, because it enables the holder to think forward and thus move after knowing what the enemy does. This is 'military' to me anyway.
Without 'military' it could mean, taking your weapons and run 'en masse' into the enemy. WITH 'military' you can think of teasing the enemy and wait until the enemy attacks, making him run into ambush or so.
Like in our game.

Still I'm even. I don;t really know.



Recruiting troups (like advanced military) could be filed under 'Military tactics'. Though I'm used to 'advanced military' I could alos get used to any other (good) name, and 'Military Tactics' is a good name.

I agree that 'Military Tactics' is a good name (and also I don't have big problems with 'Advanced Military', since I'm used to it).

However, I still have problems with the combination of 'Military' and 'Military Tactics'. In the first case, the word 'military' is a noun, while in the second case it's an adjective. In the current version, it's a noun in both cases, which feels more logic and natural.

So, since 'Military' versus 'Tactics' is not desirable because the scope of the word 'tactics' is too broad, I prefer to either to keep it like it currently is, or change both names to 'Military ...' and 'Military Tactics', where the dots could be filled in with 'Strategy', or another word that covers the scope of the advance.

ok agree

What part exactly are you agreeing to?

after Gerart's story.

What about changing the name of Advanced Military to Warfare?

Thought about something like that, but I came to "Organized Warfare"

Still like "Military Strategy" better.

I not, because of the following:
I don't like the name of an advance being part of the name of another advance, so I dont like Military and military Strategy or Advanced Military.
The stated option is to make the other one Military Tactics. Despite we already have something similar (Trade Routes (why don't call it Caravan btw?), Trade Empire) I think this will be confusing since not all players know the difference between tactics and strategy.
So I think the best option is to give one of the cards a complete different name (or just Tactics.) I don't like the name being longer then necessary, so I prefer Warfare above Organized Warfare.

Well,

Both "Tactics" and "Strategy" don't cover the whole subject, so a link to "military" should be made.

"Trade Empire" and "Trade routes" are two totally different subjects.
On each card, a flavour-text will be printed which should clarify what each subject is, SO you could never say: "I don;t know the difference"
Also the image will give some flavour to keep those apart.

let me give you the texts for these cards here:

MILITARY

Military is organized warfare in any form. Military has been around for millennia. The image shows a Thracian warrior. The military development of the Thracians (starting 700BC) was one of the military highlights in history. Skilled horsemen, masters of light infantry fighting in broken terrain, and renowned for their ferocity, the Thracians were feared by even the greatest of their contemporaries, who were eager to employ them as mercenaries. After surviving invasions by the Persians, Greeks, Macedonians and Celts, the Thracians were finally conquered by Rome in AD 46.


ADVANCED MILITARY

The Roman army is known to be highly developed and structured. Auxiliaries (from Latin: auxilia = "supports") formed the standing non-citizen corps of the Roman army of the Principate (30 BC - 284 AD), alongside the citizen legions. Auxiliaries were non-citizens recruited mostly from the provinces. At the end of their service they were granted Roman citizenship.


TRADE ROUTES

Trade routes are logistical networks identified as a series of pathways and stoppages used for the commercial transport of cargo. Allowing goods to reach distant markets, a single trade route contains long distance arteries which may further be connected to several smaller networks of commercial and non commercial transportation. One of the vital instruments which facilitated long distance trade was portage and the domestication of beasts of burden. Organized caravans, visible by the 2nd millennium BC could carry goods across a large distance as fodder was mostly available along the way. The domestication of camels allowed Arabian nomads to control the long distance trade in spices and silk from the Far East to the Arabian Peninsula.


TRADE EMPIRE

The Aegean Bronze Age civilizations established a far-ranging trade network. This network imported tin and charcoal to Cyprus, where copper was mined and alloyed with the tin to produce bronze. Bronze objects were then exported far and wide, and supported the trade. The Minoan civilization arose on Crete an flourished from approximately 2700 to 1450 BC. The Minoans were primarily a mercantile people engaged in overseas trade. Their culture, shows a high degree of organization, and is well known for their trade empire.

Jonno,

I was wondering if this subject has been discussed past weekend when you were playtesting?

No it wasn't. As it was a game at a convention, we had a schedule to stick to, and only played 12 rounds (I think, I've lost the game statistics paper), so no one ever bought either card.