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New playtest for V211 on december 28th
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| 2008-12-03 8:56:53 |
 New playtest for V211 on december 28th I'm playing a game of Civilization with at least 6 players on december 28th 2008.
I'll put down a list here of the things being playtested. If you have some thing you like to be playtested, please let me know in time.
We are playing V2.11 Beta rules, so some things already officially changed, so they are not considered a playtest anymore.
Official Changes in V2.11 Beta:
Quote: color table:
- NO CHANGE
- CHANGED LINE
- REMOVED LINES Quote: Wonder of the World (280) (290)
- REMOVED: Gives additional 20 Credits of any combination of color
- You may acquire one additional trade card for free, from a trade card stack of your choice that is higher than your amount of cities in play.
- CORRUPTION: Five additional commodity card points must be discarded.
- Nullifies Trade Empire
- Decreases the epoch entry requirements on the AST by one city.
Monument (180)
- REPLACED: Upon Purchase, you acquire ten points of credit tokens in any combination of colors. These credits can not be used during the same turn.
- Upon Purchase, you acquire twenty points of credit tokens in any combination of colors. These credits can not be used during the same turn.
Written Record (60)
- REPLACED: Upon Purchase, you acquire five points of credit tokens in any combination of colors. These credits can not be used during the same turn.
- Upon Purchase, you acquire ten points of credit tokens in any combination of colors. These credits can not be used during the same turn. Quote: Diaspora (270)
- During the Special Abilities Phase, you may place a city or tokens up to the population limit from stock in an empty area, provided that an unblocked path can be traced to target area. Cities built this way can only be built on a city site.
-Your hand limit of trade cards is reduced by one. Quote: 30.41 Public Works (Civic – 230)
- Your cities cost one additional token to construct.
- Each area containing one of your cities may also contain one of your tokens.
- Nullifies Provincial Empire. Quote: Politics (230)
- BARBARIAN HORDES: Five additional barbarian tokens are used.
- During the Special Abilities Phase, you may either gain five treasury tokens from stock, or replace from treasury exactly all units inone adjacent area belonging to a player not holding Politics or Cultural Ascendancy. In case a city is annexed, it is replaced by a city from stock and exactly five treasury tokens are transferred to stock. Pirate cities and barbarian tokens may not be annexed. Quote: Urbanism (50)
- REMOVED: You may use up to four tokens from adjacent areas to build a city in an area without a city site.
- Once per turn, up to four tokens from areas adjacent by land may be used to build a city in an area without a city site.
- REMOVED: VOLCANIC ERUPTION OR EARTHQUAKE: Four unit points are destroyed from areas adjacent to the destroyed or reduced city.
Engineering (160)
- Players require one additional token when attacking your cities, and the defending cities are replaced by one additional token.
- You require one less token when attacking cities, and the defending cities are replaced by one less token.
- EARTHQUAKE: The city is reduced rather than destroyed.
- REMOVED: VOLCANIC ERUPTION OR EARTHQUAKE: Voids the effects of Urbanism.
- FLOOD: A maximum of seven unit points from a flood plain are destroyed, or a coastal city is reduced rather than destroyed.
Quote: Trade Routes (180)
- During the Special Abilities Phase you may exchange any number of commodity cards for treasury tokens from stock at exactly twice the face value.
- Your hand limit of trade cards is increased by one.
Quote: NAVAL WARFARE (160)
- Your ships may carry one additional token.
- You may use ships instead of tokens as casualties in conflict.
REMOVED: - CIVIL WAR: A total of five unit points from both factions are destroyed.
- CIVIL DISORDER: One additional city is reduced
- PIRACY: One less city is reduced.
MILITARY (170)
- you construct and maintain ships, and move, after all players not holding Military.
- CIVIL WAR: A total of five unit points from both factions are destroyed.
REMOVED: - CIVIL DISORDER: One additional city is reduced.
- Nullifies Diplomacy.
ADVANCED MILITARY (260-240)
- You may use tokens from areas adjacent by land as casualties in battle, but must leave at least one token in each area used this way.
REMOVED- CIVIL WAR: A total of five unit points from both factions are destroyed.
- CIVIL DISORDER: One additional city is reduced.
- Nullifies Cultural Ascendancy. Quote:
- DIASPORA
Quote: Diaspora (270)
- During the Special Abilities Phase, you may place up to seven unit points from stock in one or several empty areas, provided that an unblocked path can be traced to target areas. The number of tokens placed this way may not exceed the population limit of an area. Cities built this way can only be built on a city site.
-Your hand limit of trade cards is reduced by one.
- AGRICULTURE
Quote: AGRICULTURE (120)
- Increases by one the population limit in areas containing your tokens only.
- Indirectly lessens the effect of city reduction
- Does not work for the primary victim during the resolution of FAMINE
- SALVE REVOLT: Five additional tokens can not be used for city support. *
* After I put these ideas here, some discussion about the subject changed ideas. The latest playtest option for this game will be place at the bottom of this topic.
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Last edited by Flo de Haan on 2008-12-22 8:39:04, edited 10 times in total.
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Flo de Haan
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| 2008-12-03 10:52:33 |
Wow, that seems to make Diaspora a great card. As Diaspora is currently an unpopular purchase in my group I am all in favour of beefing it up. Being able to potentially populate several areas with units is great calamity protection.
I also like the idea of the Slave Revolt calamity effect on Agriculture as my group feels that this card is currently overpowered. I think it is a good rule as currently Slave Revolt is just one of the calamities that agriculture helps against.
One alternative idea for reducing the power of Agriculture would be to remove the rule that says during reduction of cities, a player with agriculture replaces a city with the population limit of the area plus one. It has been noted that it is actually beneficial to reduce cities with a population limit greater than 4 if you have agriculture as you will receive 5 or more men which will expand at the beginning of the next turn meaning a net increase of units on the board.
I think I might actually prefer this rule to the slave revolt amendment.
I would like to see the Civic set being adjusted to make it more popular but I know that is being discussed on another thread. I think key to increasing viability of the civis would be to reduce the costs of some of them.
DG.
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DGatheral
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| 2008-12-03 12:43:49 |
DGatheral wrote: Wow, that seems to make Diaspora a great card. As Diaspora is currently an unpopular purchase in my group I am all in favour of beefing it up. Being able to potentially populate several areas with units is great calamity protection.
I also like the idea of the Slave Revolt calamity effect on Agriculture as my group feels that this card is currently overpowered. I think it is a good rule as currently Slave Revolt is just one of the calamities that agriculture helps against.
One alternative idea for reducing the power of Agriculture would be to remove the rule that says during reduction of cities, a player with agriculture replaces a city with the population limit of the area plus one. It has been noted that it is actually beneficial to reduce cities with a population limit greater than 4 if you have agriculture as you will receive 5 or more men which will expand at the beginning of the next turn meaning a net increase of units on the board.
I think I might actually prefer this rule to the slave revolt amendment.
I would like to see the Civic set being adjusted to make it more popular but I know that is being discussed on another thread. I think key to increasing viability of the civis would be to reduce the costs of some of them.
DG. Indeed, any global discussion about the civic-branch in general can be found here:
http://www.civproject.net/forum/viewtop ... =3896#3896
There is where the proposal for Agriculture came from as well.
Conceirning Diaspora, in fact it is a slight change, but the card becomes more versatile. It's not that the card itself was too weak, but now it can be part of an overall strategy. Just like we intended to change for the civic branch.
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Flo de Haan
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| 2008-12-22 8:34:47 |
DIASPORA & AGRICULTURE
The playtest ideas for Diaspora have changed.
I'll put the latest updates for playtesting option right here.
VOLCANOS
one addition is the placement of 3 volcanos on the eastern side of the map. The right locations for the volcanos are:
WEST
Mt. Vesusvius
Neapolis / Campania
(Asc. with:) Rome
Mt. Etna
Milazzo / Syracuse
(Asc. with:) Rome
Mt. Thera
Thera
(Asc. with:) Minoa
EAST
Mt. Damavand
Media / Hecatompylos
(Asc. with:) Parthia
Mt. Erta Ale
Danokil / Barbaria
(Asc. with:) Nubia
Dach-I-Navar
Gandhara / Kuhwat
(Asc. with:) Kushan
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Flo de Haan
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| 2008-12-22 8:55:24 |
Latest option for
DIASPORA:
For the card:
Quote: Diaspora (270)
- During the Special Abilities Phase, you may place up to five unit points from stock
in one or several empty areas adjacent to eachother, provided that an unblocked path can be traced to
target areas. The number of tokens placed this way may not exceed the population
limit of an area. A city built this way can only be built on a city site.
-Your hand limit of trade cards is reduced by one. For the Rulebook: Quote: 25.1.3 Diaspora (25.2) and Universal Doctrine (25.8 ) make use of tracing an unblocked path. An unblocked path may be traced from one area containing a city or one or more population token belonging to the player tracing a path to any other area on the board. Each area in between is considered a step on this path. Water and land components in the same area are considered two different areas for this purpose. These areas may not contain a city or one or more population tokens belonging to another player. Ships are not regarded in this way and can not block a path. A path may be traced across an open sea area only if the player holds Astronavigation (30.6). Quote: 30.14 Diaspora (Religion - 270)
30.14.1 Provides 10 Religion credits and 5 Art credits.
30.14.2 During the Special Abilities Phase (25.2), a holder may place up to five unit points from stock into one or several empty target areas, provided that an unblocked path (25.1.3) can be traced to target areas. If more than one area is chosen this way, all target areas must be adjacent to eachother. These five unit points may consist of either a city or tokens. A city built this way can only be built on a city site. For each target area the number of tokens may not exceed its population limit, regardless of holding Agriculture (30.3). Areas containing a pirate city or barbarian tokens may not be selected as empty target area for this purpose, and can not be used for tracing an unblocked path.
30.14.3 A holder's hand limit of trade cards is reduced by one. (27.2.2)
-- Quote: 30.49 Universal Doctrine (Religion – 160)
30.49.1 Provides 10 Religion credits and 5 Civic credits. Provides 20 extra credits to Theology.
30.49.2 One additional city is reduced due to Superstition (29.3.2.3).
30.49.3 During the Special Abilities Phase (25.8 ), a holder may replace from stock up to five pirate or barbarian units in one target area, provided that an unblocked path (25.1.3) can be traced to target area.
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Flo de Haan
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| 2008-12-22 8:58:57 |
Latest option for Agriculture:
AGRICULTURE
So for the card:
Quote: AGRICULTURE (120)
- Increases by one the population limit in areas containing your tokens only.
- Indirectly lessen the effect of city reduction.
- Does not work for the primary victim during the resolution of FAMINE
- FLOOD: Five additional tokens are destroyed. For the rulebook: Quote: 29.5.1 Flood (major, non-tradable)
29.5.1.1 If the primary victim has vulnerable units on a flood plain (2.3.2), he must remove seventeen unit points from that flood plain. Cities are vulnerable to flood if they have been built in areas with no city site or a white city site. Cities on black city sites are safe. Tokens are always vulnerable to flood.
29.5.1.2 If the primary victim has vulnerable units on more than one flood plain, the flood occurs on the flood plain containing the greatest number of his vulnerable unit points. In the event of tie, the primary victim selects the location of the flood.
29.5.1.3 Ten vulnerable unit points on the same flood plain belonging to one or more secondary victims are also removed. The primary victim divides the ten unit point losses among the secondary victims as he chooses, but the secondary victims themselves choose which units to remove. If the number of vulnerable unit points on the affected flood plain belonging to other players totals ten or less, all those other players automatically become secondary victims and all their vulnerable units are eliminated.
29.5.1.4 If the primary victim has no vulnerable units on a flood plain, one of his coastal cities is eliminated. The primary victim chooses the city. If the primary victim has no coastal cities, he is unaffected by the flood.
29.5.1.5 A primary or secondary victim holding Engineering (30.18 ) removes a maximum of seven unit points from a flood plain. If a primary victim holding Engineering has no units on a flood plain, one of his coastal cities is reduced rather than eliminated.
29.5.1.6 After all losses are removed, all victims of Flood holding Agriculture, must destroy an additional five of their tokens from anywhere on the board. For the Calamity Quickchart:
Flood - Aggravated by Agriculture.
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Flo de Haan
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| 2008-12-22 15:43:34 |
Re: New playtest for V211 on december 28th Flo de Haan wrote: - TRADE ROUTESQuote: Trade Routes (180)
- During the Special Abilities Phase you may exchange any number of commodity cards for treasury tokens from stock at exactly twice the face value.
- Your hand limit of trade cards is increased by one.
Whilst I think I agree that the card works better if cards can be converted to treasury before the card buying phase, I am not sure that I agree with making this an ability processed during the special ability phase.
In order to know which cards you wish to change to treasury, you basically need to know what your plans are for buying cards that turn. Therefore if someone holds this card he/she is basically going to, understandably, want to spend a lot of time during the special ability phase doing his buying calculations. This could cause massive disruption to the game.
I think that if you want to allow a player to use this ability before purchasing cards then you have to let him/her exchange cards for treasury during the card buying phase.
Another problem with having it as a special ability is that it is not very powerful compared to other special abilities and if we are to have a limit of two special abilities, someone with two other special abilities is unlikely to use this.
DG.
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DGatheral
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| 2008-12-22 19:46:02 |
OK well, In fact this topic alone was ment for any ideas of what to playtest for my game of december 28th, not for ruling in general.
Maybe not clearly stated, but I dropped the limit of 2 special abilites per turn right now for the coming playtest.
We might have put this forward during previous games, right now I have my doubt whether it should be limited. If we find out during our next game that this limit should be set, it will have this need.
Maybe the best playtest for this option is to not include it. If we notice a change it has its effect. (maybe it was a placebo effect to add in after all)
I do think, that creating more balance in some things, especially the increase in civic power, it might not be nescesary to include this rule. The most important reason was the inbalance that occurs when several player have Monotheism or Politics. Maybe now players might prefer to purchase Diaspora, also the more defensive players might really try for the Trade Routes / Mining / Trade Empire option.
We realized that the Special Ability option for Trade Routes COULD slow down the game. However, in practice, we think, it will be used for a purpose. Just like players are tradig for a goal, and players are counting up all options during civilization advance acquisition.
The other thing to regard is, the limit of treasury tokens available in stock. There is no unlimited supply of treasury tokens in stock to track all possible options. In combination with Trade Empire it might work like this: You need 18 tokens, you just ask that gold card, draw it, and sell it for 18.
Combined with Mining this might reach to 36 treasury points. But it costs you 180 + 260 + 230 to reach this combo.
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Flo de Haan
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| 2008-12-29 15:19:44 |
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Flo de Haan
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