I'm involved as a teacher at a program for gifted young people in Illinois, the Center for Gifted (http://centerforgifted.org/). One of the classes at this program, part of which I teach, is devoted to historical board games. (I'll give some more details about the program and class after the questions) I stumbled across this site the other day, and thought that CivProject could be a terrific game for them to play. But I have some questions that would be useful to know the answers to. Thanks in advance for your help.

First, how long does an average turn for a new player (who has been exposed to the rulebook) take, assuming they have an experienced player who can help them with rules and the different actions have available to them? This is most important so I can figure out downtime in between turns, because that is crucial for a smoothly-running class.

What have you found to be the most effective way of teaching the game? Usually I do a combination of reading the rulebook and playing through sample turns for different styles of learners before jumping into the real game.

What is the ideal number of players?

Thanks again!

More details on the program and this class, for those interested:
The program runs for three weeks over the summer, and the historical board games class is an afternoon class that meets for 2 3/4 hours (including lunch) for five days a week. Students are entering 6th through 10th grades, and in this class all are mixed and play together. There are normally many more boys than girls, but there are several girls each year. We play games like History of the World, Britannia, Kingmaker, Axis and Allies, Diplomacy, Age of Imperialism, and more. The students choose which games to play. Each student plays one or two games per week. For this program, 'gifted' is more broadly defined than elsewhere, and the program includes art and acting classes, and used to include music and dance. The students are bright, self-motivated, and enthusiastic.

Hi Joe,
Welcome to the forum!


Purely based on my own experience:

a turn takes one hour regardless of playing with only experienced and/or a combination of experienced players.
(there's always enough time between each player's actions to help the inexperienced without delaying the game really.)

I always take 13 hours for a game. But it's just what way of playing, and all things around it if it takes you 10 or 15 hours instead for a full game.

The movement takes the most of the time, followed by the trading.
An experienced player can count out his movement but in reality waits until it's his turn to react on other players.

I once bought advanced Civilization and started reading the rulebook, asked my cousin who's into these games and we played a testing game of 2 players. Later we played one with 5 people which was a lot more fun.

When I teach a new player how the game works, I like to play a game of 4 hours with 3-5 people. This is not an optimal game, but just to teach the gameplay and rules. (we don't finish the game but agree in an ending-time)
So I would suggest at least one or two players who really know the game take some time to teach new ones in a shorter version. And when you have about 4-5 players who know the game, the rest can easily join, given the fact that they know the rules a bit. (take half an hour or more to tell the rules to a group of new players can help)


The optimal number of players is at least 5 but I prefer 8. I haven't got much experience in more, but maybe other forum-members can tell...



Remember:
When you have played your first full game you'll know what you have done wrong, and will want to try another strategy next game. Then find out you have done wrong other things and want to try yet another way.

It takes a game or 3-5 before you really understand the tactics.
(this is my experience with new players)
Winning REALLY takes more than beginner's luck

Thanks for the reply, Flo! I have a follow-up question:

How long does an average movement phase (or whatever the longest phase is) take?



I definitely like giving players a chance to try playing an introductory game before jumping in. It sounds like it would be feasible for Civilization. For some of the games that we barely finish during the program, like Britannia or Diplomacy, it just doesn't work. But for History of the World they play a practice Epoch I, and for Age of Imperialism they play a Standard game and then the 1830 scenario.

Getting lots of players for a game shouldn't be a major issue at this program. We have only about 10-11 hours to play each week.

Wanting to play again with an altered strategy is a sign of a good game! Thanks again for your help!

Depending on how quick people make descissions (which is somewhat realted to how experienced people are) I think movement takes 20 minutes.
Trading and calamity resolution afterwards can take 20 minutes
deciding which cards are to be purchased may take some time too, say like 10 minutes (sometimes even longer, especially for unexperienced players who have to read all cards first)
Leaving you 10 minutes for AST alterartion, taxes and population expansion


these numbers go for all players simulateously.

The census-field/ast-field can be used to mark which players are done and are used to see which player is to be next.

Thanks for such a detailed breakdown! So, all players play a given phase simultaneously?

yes sorry for my bad typing qualities

I just wanted to make sure I understood everything. I'm hoping to get a chance to try out the game before next summer, to make sure it would be suitable for the program. But it sounds good!

Have Fun! It's a great game you can really get addicted to.

No dice, No lucky cards, just tactics, trading, interaction and possible bad luck (and find out how to avoid this)


Note: these are my experiences, and I'm telling my truth. Maybe someone else give you slightly different numbers or reviews.