Civilization: The Expansion Project

A strategy game inspired by Advanced Civilization™


All times are UTC


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
Minor changes to the lastest Quick Chart?
Author Message
Post Minor changes to the lastest Quick Chart?
I know I am being a real pedant, but I have come across what I consider to be some very minor corrections that could be made on the "Civilization: The Expansion Project Quick Chart" to clear up some ambiguities.

I will leave it to others to decide if the changes are necessary.

1 Volcanic Eruption or Earthquake
"If a victim's city touches a volcano it erupts eliminating everything in the adjacent areas."
In this situation "adjacent areas" can be interpreted as being all the areas surrounding the area touched by the volcano.

How about "If a victim's city touches a volcano it erupts eliminating everything in the touched area(s)"?

2. Flood
If primary victim has units on a flood plain, a maximum of 17 unit points are lost from the plains. Secondary victims on same plain lose 10 unit points.
The rules state that it is only the vulnerable unit points are affected.

How about "If primary victim has units on a flood plain, a maximum of 17 vulnerable unit points are lost from the plains. Secondary victims on same plain lose 10 vulnerable unit points."?

3. Flood.

Also add "If primary victim has no flood plains and no coastal cities then no effect."

4. Barbarian Hordes

... The target area must, if possible, contain one of the primary victim's cities, or else tokens. If no such area exist the remaining barbarian tokens are eliminated.
I found this really confusing and contradictory. The first sentence can be read to mean "The target area must, if possible, contain one of the primary victim's units".

This interpretation would imply that the area doesn't need to have any of the primary victims units - so the Barbarians can be put almost anywhere. However such an interpretation makes the second sentence ludicrous.

I finally realised that;
"The target area must, if possible, contain one of the primary victim's cities, or else tokens"
should be read;
"The target area must, if possible, contain one of the primary victim's cities, but if no area containing cities exist, then the primary area must at least contain tokens of the primary victim."

How about "The target area must contain one of the primary victim's cities (preferred) or tokens"?

5. Epidemic

"No areas may be left empty."

Maybe add "No areas may be left empty, so cities are replaced by a unit token and are worth 4 unit points."?

6. Coastal Migration

"Victim removes 5 unit points on coastal areas and loses all ships."

Maybe add "If no coastal areas then only ships are lost"?


7. Tribal Conflict

"Victim must select two adjacent areas which he controls and remove all, max five, tokens from these areas."
The Rules 28.731 state:"28.731 The victim must remove all tokens from two of his areas sharing a common land border. Both areas must contain at least one token and must not contain a city. The victim chooses which two areas will be depopulated"

The Quick Chart does not appear to reflect the Rules.
Adjacent means "next to". Do the two areas have to be next to each other? Or can they be two totally separate areas that happen to have a common land border with another player?

Depending on the correct interpretation of the rules either of the two suggestions below could be substituted.

Maybe "Victim must select two adjacent common land border areas which he controls and remove all, max five, tokens from these areas."?
or
"Victim must select two common land border areas which he controls and remove all, max five, tokens from these areas."?

8. Squandered Wealth

"Ten treasury tokens are returned to stock."

Maybe "Ten treasury (or all if <10) tokens are returned to stock."?

9. Tempest

"Victim must return all his ships as well as 5 treasury token to stock."
Ditto.

"Victim must return all his ships as well as 5 (or all if <5) treasury token to stock.

10. City Riots

"Victim must reduce one city and also must move five treasury tokens to stock."
Ditto.

"Victim must reduce one city and also must move five (or all if <5) treasury tokens to stock."

11. Coastal Migration

"Victim removes 5 unit points on coastal areas and loses all ships."
Ditto.

"Victim removes 5 (or all if <5) unit points on coastal areas and loses all ships."

12. Civil War

There is no mention on the Quick Chart about players with no units on the board being a beneficiary

As mentioned at the introduction some these suggestions are really pedantic and trivial, but other could be helpful.


Member
Profile
Send private message
Joined:
2005-11-25 12:29:56
Posts:
26
Location:
Australia
Post Re: Minor changes to the lastest Quick Chart?
trad2bay wrote:
1 Volcanic Eruption or Earthquake
"If a victim's city touches a volcano it erupts eliminating everything in the adjacent areas."
In this situation "adjacent areas" can be interpreted as being all the areas surrounding the area touched by the volcano.

How about "If a victim's city touches a volcano it erupts eliminating everything in the touched area(s)"?

I don't think anyone would seriously make that interpretation, but I changed to the same terminology as in the core rulebook anyway.
The Calamity Quick Chart now reads "If a victim's city is touched by a volcano it erupts eliminating everything in the touched areas.".

trad2bay wrote:
2. Flood
If primary victim has units on a flood plain, a maximum of 17 unit points are lost from the plains. Secondary victims on same plain lose 10 unit points.
The rules state that it is only the vulnerable unit points are affected.

How about "If primary victim has units on a flood plain, a maximum of 17 vulnerable unit points are lost from the plains. Secondary victims on same plain lose 10 vulnerable unit points."?

I'd like to keep the text on the quick chart fairly short, so I think the combination "from the plain" and "Cities on black city sites are safe." is enough.

trad2bay wrote:
3. Flood.

Also add "If primary victim has no flood plains and no coastal cities then no effect."

Not necessary, as not removing anything if you can't remove anything is the default.

trad2bay wrote:
4. Barbarian Hordes

... The target area must, if possible, contain one of the primary victim's cities, or else tokens. If no such area exist the remaining barbarian tokens are eliminated.
I found this really confusing and contradictory. The first sentence can be read to mean "The target area must, if possible, contain one of the primary victim's units".

This interpretation would imply that the area doesn't need to have any of the primary victims units - so the Barbarians can be put almost anywhere. However such an interpretation makes the second sentence ludicrous.

I finally realised that;
"The target area must, if possible, contain one of the primary victim's cities, or else tokens"
should be read;
"The target area must, if possible, contain one of the primary victim's cities, but if no area containing cities exist, then the primary area must at least contain tokens of the primary victim."

How about "The target area must contain one of the primary victim's cities (preferred) or tokens"?

You are correct, the intended interpretation is "The target area must, if possible, contain one of the primary victim's cities, or if no target area contains one of the primary victim's cities it must contain at least one of the primary victim's tokens", but as you may understand that is far to cumbersome to include on the quick chart. However, your suggestion seems fine, so I included it instead.

trad2bay wrote:
5. Epidemic

"No areas may be left empty."

Maybe add "No areas may be left empty, so cities are replaced by a unit token and are worth 4 unit points."?

Absolutely not, as a city still is worth 5, you just can't use all 5 points as calamity losses, as at least one of them must remain (as a token). If you understand the concept of unit points the rest follows perfectly fine from "No areas may be left empty.", and if you don't you have larger problems than Epidemic.

trad2bay wrote:
6. Coastal Migration

"Victim removes 5 unit points on coastal areas and loses all ships."

Maybe add "If no coastal areas then only ships are lost"?

As above, not removing any unit points you can't remove is the default.

trad2bay wrote:
7. Tribal Conflict

"Victim must select two adjacent areas which he controls and remove all, max five, tokens from these areas."
The Rules 28.731 state:"28.731 The victim must remove all tokens from two of his areas sharing a common land border. Both areas must contain at least one token and must not contain a city. The victim chooses which two areas will be depopulated"

The Quick Chart does not appear to reflect the Rules.
Adjacent means "next to". Do the two areas have to be next to each other? Or can they be two totally separate areas that happen to have a common land border with another player?

Depending on the correct interpretation of the rules either of the two suggestions below could be substituted.

Maybe "Victim must select two adjacent common land border areas which he controls and remove all, max five, tokens from these areas."?
or
"Victim must select two common land border areas which he controls and remove all, max five, tokens from these areas."?

If you look at the definition of areas (2.2) and boundaries (2.3) you'll find that "sharing a land boundary" and "being adjacent over land" are equivalent terms. Both means that the areas are next to each other, with only a single white line crossing a green or brown background dividing them.

As you seams to have misread 28.731 I've simplified it to read "28.731 The victim must remove all tokens from two areas that are adjacent over land. Both areas must contain at least one token belonging to the primary victim and must not contain a city. The victim chooses which two areas will be depopulated.". Is this more clear?

trad2bay wrote:
8. Squandered Wealth

"Ten treasury tokens are returned to stock."

Maybe "Ten treasury (or all if <10) tokens are returned to stock."?

9. Tempest

"Victim must return all his ships as well as 5 treasury token to stock."
Ditto.

"Victim must return all his ships as well as 5 (or all if <5) treasury token to stock.

10. City Riots

"Victim must reduce one city and also must move five treasury tokens to stock."
Ditto.

"Victim must reduce one city and also must move five (or all if <5) treasury tokens to stock."

11. Coastal Migration

"Victim removes 5 unit points on coastal areas and loses all ships."
Ditto.

"Victim removes 5 (or all if <5) unit points on coastal areas and loses all ships."

As removing as much as you can when you can't remove all is the default, this is unnecessary.

trad2bay wrote:
12. Civil War

There is no mention on the Quick Chart about players with no units on the board being a beneficiary

Oups, that should be fixed. As the Calamity Quick Chart also should be consisted with the updated rulebook wording I changed it to "The beneficiary is the player with the most unit point in stock that has no units on the map, or has at most seven areas between his units and the victim's units.". However, I'm afraid that that might be a bit too complicated. What do you think?


Site Admin
Profile
Send private message
Joined:
2004-04-14 3:54:30
Posts:
556
Location:
Linköping, Sweden
Post Re: Minor changes to the lastest Quick Chart?
Once again, thanks Jonno and I agree with your answers.

A couple of small things

trad2bay wrote:
5. Epidemic
Maybe add "No areas may be left empty, so cities are replaced by a unit token and are worth 4 unit points."?


I can now see this sentence does not explain what I meant to say.

I wanted something in the Quick Chart as a reminder that when the the cities are removed and are replaced by a token, cities account for a maximum of 4 unit points for this calamity.

But I can see this will not fit - and your explanation is fine.

trad2bay wrote:
7. Tribal Conflict

"Victim must select two adjacent areas which he controls and remove all, max five, tokens from these areas."


My mistake. Tribal Conflict appears on the Quick Chart just above Tyranny. Tribal Conflict refers to "common land borders" and Tyranny refers to "sharing a land border"

Because of the similarity I had confused the two.

Jonno wrote:
As you seams to have misread 28.731 I've simplified it to read "28.731 The victim must remove all tokens from two areas that are adjacent over land. Both areas must contain at least one token belonging to the primary victim and must not contain a city. The victim chooses which two areas will be depopulated.". Is this more clear?

I think your new explanation is great. Thanks

Jonno wrote:
Oups, that should be fixed. As the Calamity Quick Chart also should be consisted with the updated rulebook wording I changed it to "The beneficiary is the player with the most unit point in stock that has no units on the map, or has at most seven areas between his units and the victim's units.". However, I'm afraid that that might be a bit too complicated. What do you think?


I agree. How about "Whoever has most unit points in stock - (a) within 8 areas (b) with no units on the map or (c) is the Victim, is the beneficiary."

However getting this message condensed is going to be tough.


Member
Profile
Send private message
Joined:
2005-11-25 12:29:56
Posts:
26
Location:
Australia
Post 
Why would we need to mention the "no units on the map" case? If you have no units on the map, you've already triggered the most units in stock case.


VIP
Profile
Send private message
Joined:
2003-07-01 15:19:33
Posts:
217
Location:
USA
Post 
mcbeth wrote:
Why would we need to mention the "no units on the map" case? If you have no units on the map, you've already triggered the most units in stock case.

But without units on the map you don't have any units within eight areas of the primary victim, which is the other requirement that must be fulfilled.


Site Admin
Profile
Send private message
Joined:
2004-04-14 3:54:30
Posts:
556
Location:
Linköping, Sweden
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
CivProject phpBB3 template by Jon Severinsson
Based on Revolution Pro phpBB3 template by Brian Gardner Media, LLC