Civilization: The Expansion Project
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Cartography
https://dev.civproject.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=82		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Dalamant [ 2004-01-26 20:27:56 ]
Post subject: 
Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but didn't cartography (aka mapmaking) precede astronomy in history (a la Sid Meier's Civilization)? Wouldn't it then be cheaper (Cartography=180; Astronomy=80)? Just a thought.

K J K Dalamant
Author:  Velusion [ 2004-01-27 10:09:53 ]
Post subject: 
Hmm... good accurate mapmaking? I wasn't under that impression. I know phoenician traders used the stars and just landmarks on the Med.
Author:  Dalamant [ 2004-01-28 4:38:37 ]
Post subject: 
You're probably right.. accurate cartography probably wasn't around in those days.. just a misnomer by the creators of Sid Meier's game, who allow players to acquire mapmaking before astronomy, which allows the trireme/galley; they probably did simply navigate by landmarks until astronomy, and real cartography later.

K J K Dalamant
Author:  Velusion [ 2004-02-02 11:43:13 ]
Post subject: 
You know... I never realized that about civ2!

I dunno... I don't think "mapmaking" as in drawing a path is really an advance... I'm thinking more of detailed collection of maps. I'd be open to other suggestions for the advance name though...
Author:  Dalamant [ 2004-02-03 2:40:47 ]
Post subject: 
Nevermind - don't change a thing.. I'm convinced of your knowledge on this one.. “Cartography” is more than appropriate, and “Mapmaking” may have been misplaced by Sid Meier, as are some other such components of his game; after all, it IS just a video game, and he IS in it for the profit, not the education - a much different impetus than the people of these forums!

K J K Dalamant
Author:  Flo de Haan [ 2007-09-02 23:49:08 ]
Post subject: 
when it comes to the art about cartography by the way. I prefer an image that doesn't contain a globe, as the idea of the earth being round was not something accepted in the ancient times. In fact, it was a step further than cartography as civilization advance


Maybe when considering Cartography as "advanced seafaring" compared to astronomy, and linked to Library of Alexandria (Library), maybe the lighthouse of Pharos might be an idea for art on this card. But it's not directly 'cartography', though it stands for 'advanced seafaring'
Author:  MiracleMat [ 2008-03-08 9:54:27 ]
Post subject:  Cartography
I must protest!

However not about Cartography. It's a great card and the artwork should DEFINITELY NOT show a globe. The earth is flat at the time. In fact, the shape of the land itself was far different 10,000 years ago. The oceans levels were far lower then and the land a different shape entirely. For example, The Black Sea was fresh water until the Med spilled into it around 5,500 B.C raising it a few hundred feet. Now THERE's a Calamity: Black Sea Deluge.

Anyway, I must protest on the mention of Sid Meier's name. After reading an interview in which he mentions NEVER having played Civ before designing his game, I vowed that his name never be spoken. In fact, now I must go flog myself for typing that. From now on, he will be "The one we do not name"
Author:  Jonno [ 2008-03-08 12:12:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Cartography
Well, you may rejoice, the new illustrations Flo de Haan has made does not contain any globe.

As for "The one we do not name", he did make a decent computer game, even though it has almost nothing to do with our beloved board game.
Author:  mcbeth [ 2008-03-08 18:00:30 ]
Post subject: 
*shakes fist silently in the air at the nameless one*
Author:  Flo de Haan [ 2008-03-09 10:21:49 ]
Post subject: 
Only to clarify, I've noticed that too, I'll put the new Cartography here:


Image

160 CARTOGRAPHY

Cartography from the Greek "chartis" (map) and "graphein" (write) has been an integral part of the human story for millennia Mapping represented a significant step forward in the intellectual development of human beings and it serves as a record of the advancing knowledge of the human race.
The oldest known world map is the Imago Mundi of 6th century BC Babylonia. The map shows Babylon on the Euphrates, surrounded by a circular landmass showing Assyria, Armenia and several cities, in turn surrounded by a "bitter river" (Oceanus). Anaximander (died ca. 546 BC) is credited with having created the first map of the world, which was circular in form and showed the known lands of the world grouped around the Aegean Sea at the center. This was all surrounded by the ocean.



BUT. in history, people have known the world to be a globe before. They just forgot. Especially in the middle ages (500-1500) it was forbidden by the catholic church to believe the earth being a globe.
Still there are no globe-maps of the time people believed the earth was a globe. And Cartography is about making maps, so this thing is to be left out. Important thing is: one civilization might have believed the earth to be a globe, where the other doesn't, all Civilizations have developed 'cartography' on a 2D-environment.
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