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| Civ & Adv Civ Licenses https://dev.civproject.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=362 |
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| Author: | Badaboom [ 2006-11-28 4:52:13 ] |
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Does anyone know which company currently has the licenses for Civilization Original Game and Advanced Civilization and Western Expansion Map? Do they still produce it? Or have plans for it? Last time I checked(was some time ago) Gibson produced the Original Game. Is this still the licenseholder? But they dont do Adv. Civ? Please let me know. Any help is appreciated. |
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| Author: | Jonno [ 2006-11-28 5:27:29 ] |
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Hasbro owns the copyright, Take Two Interactive owns the trademark. Gibson had a non-exclusive license to do a clone of Civilization (but not Advanced Civilization), but last I've heard (2 years ago) they had stopped printing it. I don't know if they still have a license to reprint. (The Gibson version of Civilization is not the same as Avalon Hill's version. It has simplified rules, a really ugly map, and uses 56 round tokens, 9 square cities and 4 semi-elliptical ships. I'm the unfortunate owner of a copy, so I might be able to produce side-by-side comparison pictures someday). Hasbro currently has no plans of reprinting neither Civilization nor Advanced Civilization. Take Two Interactive is however actively using the trademark, currently shipping products are "Civilization IV" and "Sid Meir's Civilization - The Boardgame". Neither has anything to do with Avalon Hill's games Civilization and Advanced Civilization though. |
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| Author: | mcbeth [ 2006-11-28 17:30:40 ] |
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The company that made "Sid Meier's Civilization - The Board Game" "collapsed under the weight of its own mismanagement" (quote from the guy that bought Eagle Games' remaining stock after the collapse). And, I confirm the rest of what Jonno said. |
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| Author: | gdcurry [ 2007-03-20 18:42:00 ] |
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That said, the Civ project is probably not in violation of copyright, though trademark may possibly be an issue (I'm not a lawyer). As the many crayon rails and 18xx games attest, you cannot copyright a game style. This means you could probably create your own version of Civ which is slightly different but substantially similar to the original Civ and publish it. You could not call it Civilization, and you would have to rewrite the rules, but gameplay could be virtually identical and you would probably get away with it. Unless you made a lot of money off it. When corporate lawyers smell deep pockets, the merits of a lawsuit become secondary to the possibility of a settlement that will cost the defendant less than their lawyers would to defend them. |
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| Author: | Jonno [ 2007-03-20 19:29:25 ] |
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You are correct that only the presentation of the gameplay, not the gameplay itself can be copyrighted. However CivProject is not in the all-clear area, as we did not replace everything, but added to it and made cumulative changes. For example, we still uses the original illustrations on civcards and tokens and player mats, and the rulebook is just a heavily edited version of the original. However, as long as we don't make any profit, and provide our legal disclaimer (the one to the left), copyright is a non-issue by Swedish law (US law is another matter, but the site is hosted in Sweden nowadays). To actually sell copies you'd have to redo all components that isn't already original works however. That mean that I would need a few months to rewrite the rulebook from scratch, and someone would have to replace 132 drawings. And then I'd have to consult a lawyer to be on the safe side And regarding the deep pockets, that won't work in Sweden. They might try, and they might hamper us by taking us to court, but in Sweden you can actually win a case without a budget, provided you are indeed right... The worst thing they can do to me is file a lawsuit in the US, in which case I must hire a US layer to tell the court they don't have jurisdiction, or I'll lose by default... Trademark issues, however, is another beast, as both Civilization and AH is registered trademarks I don't own, but I don't see how Take Two Interactive (owner of the Civilization trademark) can feel threatened by CivProject, and if Wizards of the Coast (owner of the AH trademark) threatens to suite I can live without a trade card back. I made some further digging on the copyrights of the "originals". 1981 Civilization: Published by Hartland Trefoil Ltd. Copyright 1980 F. G. Tresham 1982 Civilization: Published by The Avalon Hill Game Company Copyright 1981 The Avalon Hill Game Company (Rulebook) Copyright 1982 The Avalon Hill Game Company (Box) "Made under license from Hartland Trefoil Ltd., Northampton, England" 1988 Civilization: Published by H.P. Gibson & Sons Ltd., London Copyright 1980, 1988 F. G. Tresham "Made [...] under licence from Hartland Trefoil Ltd., Northampton, England" 1988 Civilization Wester Expansion Map: Published by Hartland Trefoil Ltd Copyright 1988 F. G. Tresham 1988 Civilization Wester Expansion Map: Published by The Avalon Hill Game Company Copyright 1988 F. G. Tresham 1991 Advanced Civilization: Published by The Avalon Hill Game Company Copyright 1991 The Avalon Hill Game Company "Made under license from Hartland Trefoil Ltd., Northampton, England" 1998: Avalon Hill disbanded Hasbro, Inc. purchased "the rights to the Avalon Hill games and back inventory and the name 'Avalon Hill'" Hasbro, Inc. transfers "Avalon Hill strategic board game line" to Wizards of the Coast, Inc. 1998: Hartland Trefoil Ltd. bought by MicroProse Software, Inc. MicroProse Software, Inc. bought by Hasbro, Inc. MicroProse Software, Inc. merged into Hasbro Interactive, Inc. 2001: Hasbro, Inc. long term licenses all Hasbro Interactive, Inc. rights to Infogrames, Inc., owned by Infogrames Entertainment SA 2003: Infogrames, Inc. reorganized into Atari, Inc., still owned by Infogrames Entertainment SA This information is based on printed copyright notices on the games, old press releases, company webpages, and Wikipedia (when no more reliable information is available to me). Based on this information the copyright is divided into two part. The first part consists of the original Hartland Trefoil Civilization, the UK Gibson Civilization, and all versions of Civilization Wester Expansion Map. This copyright is currently owned by F. G. Tresham, or Hasbro, Inc. If owned by Hasbro, Inc. it might be long term licensed by Atari, Inc. (making them the effective owner). The second part of the copyright consists of the US Avalon Hill Civilization, as well as Advanced Civilization. It is currently owned by Hasbro, Inc. or Wizards of the Coast, Inc, depending on the legalities of their transfer. An interesting note however is that Swedish law does not honor the American style default transfer of copyright from employees to the company they work for (though explicit contracts may transfer copyright to the company), so in Sweden the copyright might still be owned by F.G. Tresham, Mick Uhl, Charles Kibler, Dale Sheaffer, Bruce Harper, Jim Eliason, Jeff Groteboer, Eric Hunter, Steven Padgett, Gray Rapanos, Michael Roos, Jeniofer Schlickbernd, Jeff Suchard, and Charles Kibler. This is however mostly of interest if Hasbro, Wizzards of the Coast or Atari tries to sue me, in which case the case might be thrown out of court. This in addition to the fact that Swedish law currently (lobbying is in progress) only covers "damages", eg. lost sales, eg. nothing (at least, that is my layman interpretation) for non-commercial uses. |
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